In the wide world of Christianity there's few subjects as controversial as baptism. Every church practices it, but every church practices it differently. Some immerse, some pour, some sprinkle. Some only baptize babies, others only baptize adults. Some baptize for repentance, others baptize for obedience. Some say "I'm baptized therefore I'm saved," others say "I'm saved therefore I'm baptized." It's enough to make your head spin.
The kicker is that everyone firmly believes that their way is the right way, perhaps the only way. Two completely different sides both argue that anyone can plainly see how the Bible supports their position. Many times they even use to the same verses to support their differing practices. For example, I once attended the infant baptism of a family member. The pastor read from Romans 6. That's the same passage I use whenever we immerse adults.
My question is this...what should we do with those who understand and practice baptism differently than us? Traditionally we've argued with them, debated them, rejected them or outright condemned them. None of which have been too effective at helping them see our side of things. A better way starts with the acceptance of a simple truth...we're both good-hearted people who are sincerely seeking to obey God's Word. If we start with that understanding there's usually room for dialogue and discussion. And who knows, maybe we'll both learn something.
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
Wading into Controversy
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15 comments:
Russ,
I am reminded of Romamns 14:4
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
We need to keep our hearts involved but keep our noses out of it. The details of someone else's baptism are none of my business. That is is between them and God. Who am I to say?
I do not think that dialogue and discussion is getting our "noses in it". I do not think that talking about it and studying more about what is written is none of our business. I do however think that it is somewhat strange that there are so many that use the same verses and get many different meanings from them...it does make ones head spin.
Those that understand and practice baptism differently are just as concerned for us as we are for them so naturally talking and studying with them..not debating or rejecting them.
I have studied with many that beleive differently and if you have an open heart and let God do the rest amazing things can happen.So my opinion on this matter is this we have the choice to sit back and not do anything because we are afraid of what others will think (that we stuck out nose in it...) or that we can be open and nice and let God walk us through that discussion.
Russ,
In our background we have both probably debated people and even tried to convert people who did not have a “scriptural” baptism. What is at play here to me more than interpretation of scripture is the underlying culture of satisfaction in a feeling that “we” have an understanding that others don’t. I remember well hearing preachers tell me that others in other denominations did not “love” the Word as we did, or that they parsed it so that they might be comfortable with it. In my adult life I realize how full of crap that is. Even my very conservative Dad realizes there are people who love the scripture and the Lord as much as we and who are just as smart, and still come to a different understanding of scripture. It took him over 50 years and a very close relationship in business with the people at Bob Jones University
If you truly love someone then you best put your nose all about their baptism and details of it. After all, scripture tells us that it is their salvation at stake. If it’s that important then why don’t we just do it the way God tells us to? - K
Perhaps it would be better if we left personal opinion and experience out of it and just read the end of Acts 18. I wonder if Apollos was glad that Aquilla and Priscilla "stuck their noses" into his baptism, which was wrong, and "taught him the way of God more accurately?" [Acts 18:26]
- - Gregg
P.S. Romans 14:4 has to do with matters of liberty and not direct commandments.
Gregg, as in gregg...?
-K
Gregg,
Excellent example! Isn't it interesting that the scriptures say nothing about Apollos being re-baptised? However the 12 men in Ephesus,(19:1-6) who knew only the baptism of John, were re-baptised?!
My original point was this:
If I meet a sincere believer and follower of Jesus Christ, who has through simple trusting faith and obedience submitted to baptism, why, why, why, would I ever feel the need to teach him the way of God more accurately?? The devil is not in the details.
garyneat
K,
The sad truth is that we have historically only questioned and put our noses into the baptism of anyone not baptised inside of a building with a CoC sign on the door. Lord forgive us.
garyneat
Gary,
If the men In ephesus were re-baptized, and they were, because they knew only of the baptism of John does it make any sense at all to you that Apollos, who also only knew of John's baptism and which was according to Aquilla and Pricilla wrong, would not be?
I'm not trying to browbeat you but apparently Apollos had never heard what Jesus had commanded his diciples to do..."go and make disciples of all nations...baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Apollos was not doing that and he was wrong. I don't think Luke, the author of Acts, would ever say it was wrong to "stick your nose" into someone baptism...after all he tells us a story about a man who was a wonderfully sincere man who was sincerely wrong and a couple who was loving enough to correct him. I give Aquilla and Pricilla credit for having enough love and courage to reach out to him and I give Apollos credit for being humble enough to be corrected. This story is in the bible for a reason and I don't believe it's there to show us that the spiritual decisions of others are none of our business. I think it actually shows the opposite. Perhaps you, like Apollos, will be humble enough to be corrected on this. - - Gregg
Gary, do you believe the baptism into Jesus Christ is essential to anyone’s salvation? Or Russ, same question? If not then you might as well do as you say and keep to your own business. If you do, and I pray you do, and you truly love someone as you so often talk about, then why will you not act on that love and be concerned with a soul’s salvation. What has been done historically is irrelevant. All that matters is keeping to the Word. If I have not cared enough about a person to know the details of their salvation then Lord forgive me. – K
Wow, seems that I’m finally not alone. A very welcome change.
To All,
I think I got everyone off track from Russ' original question, which was how would we treat someone we dissagreed with?
The correct answer is with love, respect, and lots of patience. And who knows we may indeed both learn something.
Gregg,
I pray that I will indeed always be humble enough to recieve correction. I also promise to correct anyone I run accross who has been baptised into John or anyone other than Jesus Christ. But, I must confess, If they tell me that they are a baptised believer in Jesus Christ I will accept them without questions of where, when, or how.
K,
I am not a lawyer or a judge, much less "The Judge" I will leave the details and the sorting out to God. Jesus said that I would be able to identify his true followers by their love for each other, not by their pedigree.
I will continue to teach baptism. I believe that the Bible says that it a very important part of the salvation process.
Please check out the Podcast at www.mauryhills.com and listen to Russ' sermon last Sunday on Baptism. It was great!
garyneat
Russ’ original question concerned baptism, not general disagreement. I am glad to hear that you would teach baptism, but would you teach how? As a shepherd at maury hills do you believe the hows and whys are important? - K
This post, which Russ did set up to talk about difference of opinions on baptism and how to handle that and not the theological arguments for and against, has landed in the typical small minded Church of Christ way. "We had better circle up the wagons, draw a line in the sand and dare any of those in error to a loser leave town cage match of debate."
I think Russ need only read these comments to get the answer to his question which was "what should we do with those who understand and practice baptism differently than us?"
What we do is wish them a good journey on their way to Hell because we don't think God's grace could possibly cover those who interpret scripture differently than we do. The fact is we had better hope it does because something tells me we are going to need it.
I believe that Jesus is essential for salvation. Those who trust in him should also repent, confess him as Lord, and be baptized. But it's Jesus who saves, not baptism.
Apollos is a good example of what I was trying to say. Best I can tell Priscilla and Aquila didn't condemn him or refuse to accept him as a believer. In turn, they led him to a deeper understanding of God's Word. Acceptance of common ground leads to dialogue and better understanding for all. Although we have to be careful here. The tendency is to assume that our fellowship is "Priscilla & Aquila" and everyone else is "Apollos." What if we're Apollos?
It is incredibly interesting to me that I was out of town this weekend and heard my uncle preach at the very conservative Huntsville Park COC in Huntsville, AL. He spoke about the church UNIVERSAL vs. the church LOCAL. One point he made was that we are NOT to be in teh practice of deciding who is on God's roll and who is not. Only God knows for sure. He said he had known and does know bretheren and congregations today that are, but that is not what christianity is.
Gary, I sympathize with you and agree that if someone tells me they are a baptized believer in Jesus, I will not question them either. It is not my business to question their salvation, but to work out my own with fear and trembling.
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