Comments on ramblings: Baptists and Baptism

@anonymousThanks for speaking in plain English. L...

2008-06-15T21:12:00.000-06:00

@anonymous

Thanks for speaking in plain English. LOL

RodneyNo, there is no surety of that result at all...

2008-06-13T19:18:00.000-06:00

Rodney
No, there is no surety of that result at all. Baptism cannot be Romanish in character. It is not ex opere oporato, that is in virtue of the action, the result takes place. The C of C is actually either dangerously close to baptismal regeneration, or they are in the midst of that aberation surreptitiously. It is a rare main stream C of C Christian who will embrace any Baptist as a brother or sister.
The wooden approach that dunking is synonymous to the atonement, is not good soteriology.
Not holding to any systematic theology, the Churches of Christ seriously hamper themselves in terms of the historic orthodox faith of the Church.

@anonymous But isn't "the remission of sins" the r...

2008-06-13T14:23:00.000-06:00

@anonymous

But isn't "the remission of sins" the result?

Ben Williams said... @AnonymousSo if they did not ...

2008-06-13T07:54:00.000-06:00

Ben Williams said...
@Anonymous
So if they did not understand the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would they also have to be rebaptized?

Ben
This is a very valid question and my answer from being 25 years in the C of C in their pulpits is this. The fixation upon baptistic precision and mode took such precidence as to overshadow more theological considerations as the one you bring up. Church of Christ exegesis insists that all baptists are not Christians in the first place. This is a sad thing. This is why the Church of Christ person cannot be direct when asked "do you believe Baptists are Christians"? It is because inwardly the system insists that they (Baptists) are not Christian.
The immersion must be for the remissions of sins, and if you do not know and believe this at the time, then the baptism would be invalid. Hence all Baptists, and all other Christian groups are not in Christ at all. This is called sectarianism.

I can definitely related to the re-baptized thing....

2008-06-11T20:43:00.000-06:00

I can definitely related to the re-baptized thing. It's what kept my husband and I from getting deeply involved into a church at all after we were married. One of us would have to be rebaptized. We really struggled with it but eventually found it to be minor in comparison to other issues at hand. Once we found the church that God was leading us to become involved in we knew we could do it. We knew that people may interpret that point in our lives as our salvation, but it just doesn't matter what they think. We knew where we stood with God and we willing to give that profession of our commitment to Christ if that is what would comfort the congregation. If you're wondering...we both got re-baptized at a Baptist church. I saw it as a chance to "renew my vows" to Christ. Turning a new leaf...and it really was a turning point in both of our lives. No regrets! It just meant something different to us personally than it did for everyone else.

@ beaver bunch:Ahhh, you ARE among the living toda...

2008-06-11T20:38:00.000-06:00

@ beaver bunch:

Ahhh, you ARE among the living today...CALL ME!!!

Sorry for putting this on an important thread such as this one, but I've been dissed today :-)

@rodney"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition" ...

2008-06-11T18:32:00.000-06:00

@rodney

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition" "In English, the most used prepositions are "of", "to", "in", "for", and "on". Simply put, a preposition indicates a relation between things mentioned in a sentence."

It would be correct to say "Jesus Christ [because of] the forgiveness of your sins". Some would say, you have to say "for the remission of sins" or the baptism was "invalid". I don't know how that is Biblical. I just wanted to know if you need to have an understanding of what "for the remission of sins" means; do you need to have an understanding of "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" because it's part of the same verse.

@Ben"Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...

2008-06-11T16:50:00.000-06:00

@Ben

"Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins."

Is the result the forgiveness of sins or do you have to technically say "for the remission of sins while baptizing."

anyone else comment as needed

Rodney,I did mean immersion. Actually the word ba...

2008-06-11T16:18:00.000-06:00

Rodney,
I did mean immersion. Actually the word baptism and immersion mean same thing. The Greek word baptizo means "to immerse."

Beaver Bunch,
I guess I would start with my answer to Rodney. To be baptized means to be immeresed. But aside from the word itself, I think there is beautiful symbolism in the practice of immersion. It makes passages like Romans 6 come alive! This may need to be the topic of a future post.

@Anonymous"The C of C would never accept anyone in...

2008-06-11T15:26:00.000-06:00

@Anonymous

"The C of C would never accept anyone in sole virtue of being baptized into Christ unless the person made us certain it was for the remission of sins first."

Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

So if they did not understand the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would they also have to be rebaptized?

Our church is associated with the Southern Baptist...

2008-06-11T15:17:00.000-06:00

Our church is associated with the Southern Baptist Convention. To be a member in our church you must have been immersed. If you've been sprinkled they say it doesn't count and therefore you must be dunked to meet our requirements. I'm not knowledgeable enough in this area in regard to Biblical context. RUSS, what are your thoughts on sprinkle vs. immersion? I know that typically babies are sprinkled, so I get that sprinkling in that context wouldn't count, but what about a sprinkled adult?

I am assuming you mean immersion, right? When I w...

2008-06-11T14:49:00.000-06:00

I am assuming you mean immersion, right?

When I was studying Alexander Campbell recently, I couldn't find that he was re-baptized for remission of sins. As I understand, he was re-baptized in opposition to infant-sprinkling (baptism).

I agree with you Russ. Christ is where the focus ...

2008-06-11T12:38:00.000-06:00

I agree with you Russ. Christ is where the focus needs to be not the name above the door. I am a member of a Baptist Church but as I have stated many time before that is not what defines me. I am a child of God and that is what defines me. I believe that when I get to heaven God will not ask me, "What denomination are you?" He knows my heart and that is what is important. He will want to know,(actually will already know) what I did on earth to further his kingdom not my denomiation. It is heart breaking that we as christians allow the devil to get in the middle and use us. God Bless.

The C of C would never accept anyone in sole virtu...

2008-06-11T11:58:00.000-06:00

The C of C would never accept anyone in sole virtue of being baptized into Christ unless the person made us certain it was for the remission of sins first.
I know! I preached in the C of C for nearly 15 years. I know the language we used.